Steeping Two row malt in Extract with grain recipe

[Ozwald]

the ratio of grain to water is way too high to allow conversion

Efficient conversion. You'll still get some conversion from a 'thin mash' even at this high of a ratio. Personally I'd minimash them, but I still think that you'll get some flavor from steeping base malts. They're just another specialty malt at that point though, so we couldn't call it a base malt correctly in this case.

Edit: Crush a little 2 row & steep it in some water at any temp. The water changes color, correct? The water has additional flavor, correct? You're obviously pulling something out of them. You can technically steep them then, you're just not utilizing them as an AG brewer would.

[Fugglupagus]

As a lazy typer I’ve left out part of the equation. The Alesmith recipe actually reads, “extract option: replace pale malt with 7.25 lbs light dry malt extract and one pound 2 row pale malt. Steep crushed pale malt plus specialty malts in 64 oz of water at 152f for 45 minutes . . .” I failed to mention the water amount. By my math, they specify a water to grist ratio of 1.3:1 which will work pretty well for a mini mash. So in this recipe the amount of grain placed in the amount of water at the specified temperature for the suggested time qualifies as an honest to goodness mini mash. Which I think is pretty cool since many extract recipes are conversions from all grain that do not address the difference between mashing and steeping some grains. This one does. Kudos for that. But I don’t understand why they insisted on the word, “steep”. It’s like there’s some stigma about using the words “extract” and “mash” in the same recipe. This tendency seems to create unnecessary confusion and lends to the misconception that there is some gaping chasm between the worlds of extract and all grain.

As for the theoretical question, does steeping base grains (or other grains that need to be mashed) have benefit? As to the OG in the way of ppg/fermentables, no. I’ve thought that beers in which I have steeped base grains have been some of my haziest. But I do agree with Ozwald, I think it can add a subtle yet desirable flavor component. For me it’s not worth it. Especially since with a little change in process a mini mash can be performed, and those underutilized malts can be allowed to shine. Like little candles on a birthday cake.

[anday6]

They probably used 'steep' just as a beginner term. It's just a brew-in-a-bag style mini mash.

As for the benefits of steeping base grains in an extract beer, I remember Dr. Scott talking about a Kolsch he brewed extract with Moscow(i think) where he did a mini mash in the extract to utilize the enzymes in the grain to try and further convert the sugars in the extract. I think I remember the experiment being pretty successful. Personally, I would just do the mini-mash route if I was still doing extract.

[Ozwald]

As a lazy typer I’ve left out part of the equation.

Kind of an important part dontcha think?

[Dirk McLargeHuge]

If this is the recipe . . . . http://hbd.org/discus/messages/34426/38888.html . . . . then “steeping” 2 row at 152 is really forcing you to perform a mini-mash. Out of the five specialty malts, only the crystal and honey malts can contribute by steeping. The carapils, munich and wheat need to be mashed in order to add anything meaningful to the party. I also think that mashing may offer more from the very small amounts of those grains.

+1. They are trying to lure you to the dark side and all grain batches without using all the scary words.

[snowcapt]

^^^
What he said.

[crashlann]

"Steep in 2 liters..."