Beer Forum

What's the difference between a multi day starter (as recommended by John Palmer) and making up a starter the day of brewing (as recommended by Jamil)?

Is there an advantage of one over the other?

Which technique do you use?

I've only done multi day starters. Some made 2-3 days in advance, others essentially only over night. They all seem to have taken off fine....excepting my cider.

When you do a starter several days before your brew you are producing more yeast cells. When you do a starter the morning of the brewday you are rousing the yeast. Both methods will work, but if you are going to brew a high gravity beer you are most likely going to need some cell growth to reach the propper pitching rate. Jamil has done a ton of research in this area. I would suggest reading his website, http://www.mrmalty.com/ If you haven't read it already it is a great resource for yeast info.

if you make the starter the day of brewing....for example taking a vial of white labs and pitching it into "starter wort", you are proofing your yeast. You are making sure that it is ok to ferment. This is the same thing as smacking a Wyeast pack. You will not increase the number of yeast cells using this method! all that you do is 'wake them up'.


A multiday starter is used to actually increase the number of yeast cells.


one of the biggest differences in multi-day starter versus a day of starter is the volume of them. A multiday starter needs to be larger in volume. Otherwise the yeast will consume the sugars fast and when there is not enough around it will stop growth and get ready for fermentation or dormancy.


now for what i do.....

when i make a "normal" beer (an ale with OG 1.050) i use wyeast smack pack....if i'm making a lager or high gravity ale, i use a multiday starter.

either way, i do them without pants, as should you.

So is there significant cell growth from 12+? I did go back and re-read Jamil's starter article, and he states that 12-18 hours is usually sufficient for cell growth. I'm just wondering if there is actually a benefit to me allowing the yeast to fully attenuate the starter over a period of days rather than pitching 2 liters that have been fermenting 12-ish hours.

If my memory of biology YEARS ago once the yeasts starts fermenting they stop reproducing. Or to put another way:

yeast+wort+oxygen=more yeast

yeast+wort= alcohol

So, once the O2 runs out your going to stop making yeasties. There are ways of increasing your yeast cells though- stir plate, O2 injections etc.


Would *MAYBE* be a good answer to your question?

He said "injections".


Mylo

ravingcutie wrote:So is there significant cell growth from 12+? I did go back and re-read Jamil's starter article, and he states that 12-18 hours is usually sufficient for cell growth. I'm just wondering if there is actually a benefit to me allowing the yeast to fully attenuate the starter over a period of days rather than pitching 2 liters that have been fermenting 12-ish hours.

The benefits would be that you are not diluting your finished wort with 2L of lower gravity beer if you pour off the finished beer from the starter before pitching, and some believe that there is a benefit in pitching cold yeast.

So I've tried it several ways and settled on Jamil's (the latter) method - make the starter the afternoon before brew day, keep it on the stir plate and pitch the whole thing at about 20-24 hrs.

ravingcutie wrote:So is there significant cell growth from 12+? I did go back and re-read Jamil's starter article, and he states that 12-18 hours is usually sufficient for cell growth. I'm just wondering if there is actually a benefit to me allowing the yeast to fully attenuate the starter over a period of days rather than pitching 2 liters that have been fermenting 12-ish hours.

As a general rule, I pitch my 2 liter starter into my wort after 24 hours. If I was to brew something with an OG above 1070, I will make it bigger than 2 liters and let it go for a few days. With this method I will also chill it for 12-24 hours and pour off the starter wort so I just pitch the yeast. This is unnecessary and overly-anal... but I do it. It is the same as skimming during your boil I guess.