Mashing for 10 - 15 minutes???

[Holt]

I just listened to the CYBI podcast for Stone Levitation Ale. Mitch Steele from Stone says the mash for that beer is a single sac rest at 157F for 10 to 15 minutes. Is this even enough time for full conversion to happen, or is the point to limit the conversion...this really doesn't make sense to me at all. Could they be adding enzymes to the mash to decrease the conversion time--he didn't mention anything about enzymes.

When Jamil gives the homebrew recipe he again says to mash at 157F, but he does not specify a length of time. I find this very odd that a home brewer would mash for this short of a period.

Am I missing something?

[ajdelange]

IF you go to Weyermann's site and download the specs for their malts you will see that conversion times are generally listed as 10 min min, 20 min max.

[BDawg]

Plus, the commercial brewers tend to vorlauf for a long time, during which conversion continues until the enzymes either denature or conversion completes.

[leaky_porch]

From what I've seen, it also takes them a long time to mash in since they're dealing with more grain and, if they're using a grist hydrator, they're converting as they do it. In some cases, they might be done converting by the time they get all the grain in the mash tun.

[Holt]

Excellent points about the commercial process, and I believe Mitch is telling the truth about the mashing process on Stone's whatever-billion-barrel equipment, but what's the translation to a standard 6 gallon batch of Levitation in an igloo mash?

Can someone really expect full conversion in 15 minutes or less?

[JohnF]

Excellent points about the commercial process, and I believe Mitch is telling the truth about the mashing process on Stone's whatever-billion-barrel equipment, but what's the translation to a standard 6 gallon batch of Levitation in an igloo mash?

Can someone really expect full conversion in 15 minutes or less?

With zero time for mashing in and zero for vorlauf, no.

[ajdelange]

Can someone really expect full conversion in 15 minutes or less?

Based on Weyermann's data and my experience I would think so but no one says you have to limit yourself to 15 minutes if it makes you uncomfortable. You could, of course, do an iodine test (but be sure you are doing it correctly) at the end of 15 minutes and continue if you are not happy with the result.

I expect that the key is in getting the grain fully hydrated so that the liquor has access to the starch. Carefull and thorough mixing and being sure you are at the desired temperature should precede starting the clock. If you are still breaking up doughballs I don't think you can count on complete conversion whatever the time.

I don't know what kinematics these enzymes obey but it's probably reasonable to expect that the rate of conversion slows as starch is consumed so that the percentage conversion approches some assymptote with most of the conversion taking place early on and the rate in the last few minutes only contributes a small fraction of the total sugar.

You can get a rough idea about how conversion is going by observing that the mash becomes darker (loses it's flour suspended in water appearance) and easier to stir. It also tastes sweeter.

[Holt]

With zero time for mashing in and zero for vorlauf, no.

That's what I was thinking, which is why I was very surprised Jamil didn't state a mashing time for this recipe. In BCS I think all his mashes are 60 min, unless using pilsner malt then it's a 90. I'll assume this should be 157F for 60 minutes.

My friend emailed JZ for clarification, and he responded, "go listen to the podcast." Maybe Heretic should come out with "Ego Ale" as their first release--haha.